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tim  
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 More options Mar 9, 3:25 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:25:40 -0500
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2010 3:25 pm
Subject: bush torture policy
Torture Policy

Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 07:01 EST

Waterboarding for dummies

Internal CIA documents reveal a meticulous protocol that was far more brutal
than Dick Cheney's "dunk in the water"

By Mark Benjamin

Salon/AP

In background: Former Vice President Dick Cheney

Self-proclaimed waterboarding fan Dick Cheney called it a no-brainer in a
2006 radio interview: Terror suspects should get a "a dunk in the water."
But recently released internal documents reveal the controversial "enhanced
interrogation" practice was far more brutal on detainees than Cheney's
description sounds, and was administered with meticulous cruelty.

Interrogators pumped detainees full of so much water that the CIA turned to
a special saline solution to minimize the risk of death, the documents show.
The agency used a gurney "specially designed" to tilt backwards at a perfect
angle to maximize the water entering the prisoner's nose and mouth,
intensifying the sense of choking - and to be lifted upright quickly in the
event that a prisoner stopped breathing.

The documents also lay out, in chilling detail, exactly what should occur in
each two-hour waterboarding "session." Interrogators were instructed to
start pouring water right after a detainee exhaled, to ensure he inhaled
water, not air, in his next breath. They could use their hands to "dam the
runoff" and prevent water from spilling out of a detainee's mouth. They were
allowed six separate 40-second "applications" of liquid in each two-hour
session - and could dump water over a detainee's nose and mouth for a total
of 12 minutes a day. Finally, to keep detainees alive even if they inhaled
their own vomit during a session - a not-uncommon side effect of
waterboarding - the prisoners were kept on a liquid diet. The agency
recommended Ensure Plus.

"This is revolting and it is deeply disturbing," said Dr. Scott Allen,
co-director of the Center for Prisoner Health and Human Rights at Brown
University who has reviewed all of the documents for Physicians for Human
Rights. "The so-called science here is a total departure from any ethics or
any legitimate purpose. They are saying, 'This is how risky and harmful the
procedure is, but we are still going to do it.' It just sounds like lunacy,"
he said. "This fine-tuning of torture is unethical, incompetent and a
disgrace to medicine."

These torture guidelines were contained in a ream of internal government
documents made public over the past year, including a legal review of
Bush-era CIA interrogations by the Justice Department's Office of
Professional Responsibility released late last month.

Though public, the hundreds of pages of documents authorizing or later
reviewing the agency's "enhanced interrogation program" haven't been mined
for waterboarding details until now. While Bush-Cheney officials defended
the legality and safety of waterboarding by noting the practice has been
used to train U.S. service members to resist torture, the documents show
that the agency's methods went far beyond anything ever done to a soldier
during training. U.S. soldiers, for example, were generally waterboarded
with a cloth over their face one time, never more than twice, for about 20
seconds, the CIA admits in its own documents.

These memos show the CIA went much further than that with terror suspects,
using huge and dangerous quantities of liquid over long periods of time. The
CIA's waterboarding was "different" from training for elite soldiers,
according to the Justice Department document released last month. "The
difference was in the manner in which the detainee's breathing was
obstructed," the document notes. In soldier training, "The interrogator
applies a small amount of water to the cloth (on a soldier's face) in a
controlled manner," DOJ wrote. "By contrast, the agency interrogator ...
continuously applied large volumes of water to a cloth that covered the
detainee's mouth and nose."

One of the more interesting revelations in the documents is the use of a
saline solution in waterboarding. Why? Because the CIA forced such massive
quantities of water into the mouths and noses of detainees, prisoners
inevitably swallowed huge amounts of liquid - enough to conceivably kill
them from hyponatremia, a rare but deadly condition in which ingesting
enormous quantities of water results in a dangerously low concentration of
sodium in the blood. Generally a concern only for marathon runners , who on
extremely rare occasions drink that much water, hyponatremia could set in
during a prolonged waterboarding session. A waterlogged, sodium-deprived
prisoner might become confused and lethargic, slip into convulsions, enter a
coma and die.

Therefore, "based on advice of medical personnel," Principal Deputy
Assistant Attorney General Steven Bradbury wrote in a May 10, 2005, memo
authorizing continued use of waterboarding, "the CIA requires that saline
solution be used instead of plain water to reduce the possibility of
hyponatremia."

The agency used so much water there was also another risk: pneumonia
resulting from detainees inhaling the fluid forced into their mouths and
noses. Saline, the CIA argued, might reduce the risk of pneumonia when this
occurred.

"The detainee might aspirate some of the water, and the resulting water in
the lungs might lead to pneumonia," Bradbury noted in the same memo. "To
mitigate this risk, a potable saline solution is used in the procedure."

That particular Bradbury memo laid out a precise and disturbing protocol for
what went on in each waterboarding session. The CIA used a "specially
designed" gurney for waterboarding, Bradbury wrote. After immobilizing a
prisoner by strapping him down, interrogators then tilted the gurney to a
10-15 degree downward angle, with the detainee's head at the lower end. They
put a black cloth over his face and poured water, or saline, from a height
of 6 to 18 inches, documents show. The slant of the gurney helped drive the
water more directly into the prisoner's nose and mouth. But the gurney could
also be tilted upright quickly, in the event the prisoner stopped breathing.

Detainees would be strapped to the gurney for a two-hour "session." During
that session, the continuous flow of water onto a detainee's face was not
supposed to exceed 40 seconds during each pour. Interrogators could perform
six separate 40-second pours during each session, for a total of four
minutes of pouring. Detainees could be subjected to two of those two-hour
sessions during a 24-hour period, which adds up to eight minutes of pouring.
But the CIA's guidelines say interrogators could pour water over the nose
and mouth of a detainee for 12 minutes total during each 24-hour period. The
documents do not explain the extra four minutes to get to 12.

Interrogators were instructed to pour the water when a detainee had just
exhaled so that he would inhale during the pour. An interrogator was also
allowed to force the water down a detainee's mouth and nose using his hands.
"The interrogator may cup his hands around the detainee's nose and mouth to
dam the runoff," the Bradbury memo notes. "In which case it would not be
possible for the detainee to breathe during the application of the water."

"We understand that water may enter - and accumulate in - the detainee's
mouth and nasal cavity, preventing him from breathing," the memo admits.

Should a prisoner stop breathing during the procedure, the documents
instructed interrogators to rapidly tilt the gurney to an upright position
to help expel the saline. "If the detainee is not breathing freely after the
cloth is removed from his face, he is immediately moved to a vertical
position in order to clear the water from his mouth, nose, and nasopharynx,"
Bradbury wrote. "The gurney used for administering this technique is
specially designed so that this can be accomplished very quickly if
necessary."

Documents drafted by CIA medical officials in 2003, about a year after the
agency started using the waterboard, describe more aggressive procedures to
get the water out and the subject breathing. "An unresponsive subject should
be righted immediately," the CIA Office of Medical Services ordered in its
Sept. 4, 2003, medical guidelines for interrogations. "The interrogator
should then deliver a sub-xyphoid thrust to expel the water." (That's a blow
below the sternum, similar to the thrust delivered to a chocking victim in
the Heimlich maneuver.)

But even those steps might not force the prisoner to resume breathing.
Waterboarding, according to the Bradbury memo, could produce "spasms of the
larynx" that might keep a prisoner from breathing "even when the application
of water is stopped and the detainee is returned to an upright position." In
such cases, Bradbury wrote, "a qualified physician would immediately
intervene to address the problem and, if necessary, the intervening
physician would perform a tracheotomy." The agency required that "necessary
emergency medical equipment" be kept readily available for that procedure.
The documents do not say if doctors ever performed a tracheotomy on a
prisoner.

The doctors were also present to monitor the detainee "to ensure that he
does not develop respiratory distress." A leaked 2007 report from the
International Committee of the Red Cross says that meant the detainee's
finger was fixed with a pulse oxymeter, a device that measures the oxygen
saturation level in the blood during the procedure. Doctors like Allen say
this would allow interrogators to push a detainee close to death - but help
them from crossing the line. "It is measuring in real time the oxygen
content in the blood second by second," Allen explained about the pulse
oxymeter. "It basically allows them to push these prisoners more to the
edge. With that, you can keep going. This is calibration of harm by health
professionals."

One of the weirdest details in the ...

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Joel Olson  
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 More options Mar 9, 5:08 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "Joel Olson" <joel.ol...@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:08:45 -0600
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2010 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: bush torture policy
"tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:Ja2dnSlYJ8Tq9QvWnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

...

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Bill  
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 More options Mar 10, 2:01 am
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "Bill" <nob...@nowhere.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:01:37 -0600
Local: Wed, Mar 10 2010 2:01 am
Subject: Re: bush torture policy

"tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

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tim  
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 More options Mar 13, 8:59 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:59:13 -0500
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2010 8:59 pm
Subject: Re: bush torture policy

"tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:Ja2dnSlYJ8Tq9QvWnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> Torture Policy

> Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 07:01 EST

> Waterboarding for dummies

> Internal CIA documents reveal a meticulous protocol that was far more
> brutal than Dick Cheney's "dunk in the water"

> By Mark Benjamin

> Salon/AP

(more opinion)

What Torture Is and Why It's Illegal and Not "Poor Judgment"

Saturday 13 March 2010

by: Andy Worthington, t r u t h o u t | News Analysis

It's now over three weeks since veteran Justice Department (DOJ) lawyer
David Margolis dashed the hopes of those seeking accountability for the Bush
administration's torturers, but this is a story of such profound importance
that it must not be allowed to slip away.

Margolis decided that an internal report into the conduct of John Yoo and
Jay S. Bybee, who wrote the notorious memos in August 2002, which attempted
to redefine torture so that it could be used by the CIA, was mistaken in
concluding that both men were guilty of "professional misconduct," and
should be referred to their bar associations for disciplinary action.

Instead, Margolis concluded, in a memo that shredded four years of
investigative work by the Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR), the
DOJ's ethics watchdog, that Yoo and Bybee had merely exercised "poor
judgment." As lawyers in the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), which is charged
with providing objective legal advice to the executive branch on all
constitutional questions, Yoo and Bybee attempted to redefine torture as the
infliction of physical pain "equivalent in intensity to the pain
accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of
bodily function, or even death," or the infliction of mental pain which
"result[s] in significant psychological harm of significant duration e.g.
lasting for months or even years."

Yoo, notoriously, had lifted his description of the physical effects of
torture from a Medicare benefits statute and other health care provisions in
a deliberate attempt to circumvent the UN Convention Against Torture, signed
by President Reagan in 1988 and incorporated into US federal law, in which
torture is defined as:

    any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental,
is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from
him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act
he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or
intimidating or coercing him or a third person ...

Obsessed with finding ways in which "severe pain" could be defined so that
the CIA could torture detainees and get away with it, Yoo drew on some truly
revolting examples of physical torture, citing a particularly brutal case,
Mehinovic v. Vuckovic, in which, during the Bosnian war, a Serb soldier
named Nikola Vuckovic had tortured his Bosnian neighbor, Kemal Mehinovic,
with savage and sadistic brutality. Yoo dismissed the possibility that other
torture techniques - waterboarding, for example, which is a form of
controlled drowning, and prolonged sleep deprivation - might cause
"significant psychological harm of significant duration," or physical pain
rising to a level that a judge might regard as torture.

In both of his definitions, however, Yoo was clearly mistaken. No detailed
studies have yet emerged regarding the prolonged psychological effects of
the torture program approved by Yoo and Bybee, largely because lawyers for
the "high-value detainees" in Guantánamo have been prevented - first under
Bush, and now under Obama - from revealing anything publicly about their
clients.

However, lawyers for Ramzi bin al-Shibh, who was charged in the Bush
administration's military commissions, made a good show of demonstrating
that bin al-Shibh is schizophrenic and on serious medication, when they
argued throughout 2008 that he was not fit to stand trial, and I have seen
no evidence to suggest that bin al-Shibh was in a similar state before his
four years in secret CIA prisons.

An even more pertinent example is Abu Zubaydah, a supposed high-value
detainee, held in secret CIA prisons for four and a half years, for whom the
torture program was originally developed. Zubaydah's case may well be the
most shocking in Guantánamo, because, although he was subjected to physical
violence and prolonged sleep deprivation, was confined in a small box and
was waterboarded 83 times, the CIA eventually concluded that he was not, as
George W. Bush claimed after his capture, "al-Qaeda's chief of operations,"
but was, instead, a "kind of travel agent" for recruits traveling to
Afghanistan for military training, who was not a member of al-Qaeda at all.

Zubaydah was clearly mentally unstable before his capture and torture, as
the result of a head wound sustained in Afghanistan in 1992, but as one of
his lawyers, Joe Margulies, explained in an article in the Los Angeles Times
last April, his subsequent treatment in US custody has caused a profound
deterioration in his mental health that would certainly constitute
"significant psychological harm of significant duration." Margolis wrote:

    No one can pass unscathed through an ordeal like this. Abu Zubaydah paid
with his mind. Partly as a result of injuries he suffered while he was
fighting the communists in Afghanistan, partly as a result of how those
injuries were exacerbated by the CIA and partly as a result of his extended
isolation, Abu Zubaydah's mental grasp is slipping away. Today, he suffers
blinding headaches and has permanent brain damage. He has an excruciating
sensitivity to sounds, hearing what others do not. The slightest noise
drives him nearly insane. In the last two years alone, he has experienced
about 200 seizures.

Moreover, when it came to defining physical torture, the OPR report's
authors noted that, as so often in the memos, Yoo had ignored relevant case
history. The key passage in the report deals with the US courts' decisions
regarding the Torture Victim Protection Act (TVPA). Yoo had drawn on
Mehinovic for his description of physical torture "of an especially cruel
and even sadistic nature," and, as the authors noted, he also argued that
only 'acts of an extreme nature' that were 'well over the line of what
constitutes torture' have been alleged in TVPA cases."

The authors continued:

    Thus, the memorandum asserted, "there are no cases that analyze what the
lowest boundary of what constitutes torture."[sic]

    That assertion was misleading. In fact, conduct far less extreme than
that described in Mehinovic v. Vuckovic was held to constitute torture in
one of the TVPA cases cited in the appendix to the Bybee memo. That case,
Daliberti v. Republic of Iraq, 146 F. Supp. 2d 146 (D.D.C. 2001), held that
imprisonment for five days under extremely bad conditions, while being
threatened with bodily harm, interrogated and held at gunpoint, constituted
torture with respect to one claimant.

A close inspection of Daliberti (which dealt with US personnel seized by
Iraqi forces between 1992 and 1995) is revealing, as the DC District Court
held, "Such direct attacks on a person and the described deprivation of
basic human necessities are more than enough to meet the definition of
'torture' in the Torture Victim Protection Act." The judges based their
ruling on the following:

    David Daliberti and William Barloon allege that they were "blindfolded,
interrogated and subjected to physical, mental and verbal abuse" while in
captivity. They allege that during their arrests one of the agents of the
defendant threatened them with a gun, allegedly causing David Daliberti
"serious mental anguish, pain and suffering." During their imprisonment in
Abu Ghraib prison, Daliberti and Barloon were "not provided adequate or
proper medical treatment for serious medical conditions which became life
threatening." The alleged torture of Kenneth Beaty involved holding him in
confinement for eleven days "with no water, no toilet and no bed."
Similarly, Chad Hall allegedly was held for a period of at least four days
"with no lights, no window, no water, no toilet and no proper bed."
Plaintiffs further proffer that Hall was "stripped naked, blindfolded and
threatened with electrocution by placing wires on his testicles ... in an
effort to coerce a confession from him."

Yoo and his apologists will undoubtedly quibble yet again. There is the
threat of electrocution, a threat made with a gun and deprivation of water,
in one case for 11 days, none of which feature in the OLC's memos. However,
outside of the specific torture program approved by the OLC, numerous
prisoners who were held at Bagram before being transported to Guantánamo
have stated that they were actually subjected to electric shocks while
hooded (rather than being threatened with electrocution), and that being
threatened at gunpoint was a regular occurrence.

Moreover, it has also been stated that the withholding of medication was
used with Abu Zubaydah after his capture, when he was severely wounded, and
it should also be noted that numerous ex-prisoners have stated that, in
Guantánamo, it was routine for medical treatment to be withheld unless
prisoners cooperated with their interrogators.

Most of all, however, a comparison between Daliberti and the OLC memos
reveals the extent to which the techniques approved by Yoo resulted in
"severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental," which clearly
exceeded that endured by David Daliberti and his fellow Americans in Iraq.

First of all, there is waterboarding, an ancient torture technique that has
long been recognized as torture by the United States. As Eric Holder noted
during his confirmation hearing in January 2009, "We prosecuted our own
soldiers for using it in Vietnam." With this in mind, it ought to be
inconceivable that anyone ...

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Joel Olson  
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 More options Mar 13, 10:36 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "Joel Olson" <joel.ol...@cox.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:36:58 -0600
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2010 10:36 pm
Subject: Re: bush torture policy
"tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:U7idndh_6cA4YQbWnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

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tim  
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 More options Mar 13, 10:46 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:46:32 -0500
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2010 10:46 pm
Subject: Re: bush torture policy

"Joel Olson" <joel.ol...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:dsUmn.32043$sx5.26898@newsfe16.iad...

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Wiley Nielson  
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 More options Mar 13, 10:50 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "Wiley Nielson" <MFar...@SNL.dot>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:50:12 -0600
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2010 10:50 pm
Subject: Re: bush torture policy

"tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:l7SdnQiBD8pQiAHWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> History has harsh judgment of unethical lawyers.  These two will share in
> equal part the eternal damnation Bush and Cheney are due.  Eternal.  Scum
> of the earth.

Really, Tim, what is the difference between torturing someone with water and
torturing someone with untrimmed posts?

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tim  
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 More options Mar 13, 11:04 pm
Newsgroups: alt.society.zeitgeist
From: "tim" <uchkuduk...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:04:41 -0500
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2010 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: bush torture policy

>> History has harsh judgment of unethical lawyers.  These two will share in
>> equal part the eternal damnation Bush and Cheney are due.  Eternal.  Scum
>> of the earth.
> Real Tim, what is tween tort water and me with rim sts?

The former is simulated drowning, the latter is actual drowning.

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